Living off your income or consuming your capital – presentation of possible scenarios

This article follows on from Jérôme's excellent article "Live exclusively dividends or eat up capital?" and to the very pertinent question recently asked by Laurent Martin:

"When you consider that the time has come to become a rentier (and therefore to give up paid employment), when you judge the investments made so far sufficient, do you expect to live only on the income from these investments (dividends) or also on the capital by starting it? This second hypothesis is undoubtedly more delicate to manage, but allows one to consider oneself as financially independent sooner.”

This fascinating question has occupied my mind a lot in recent days and has prompted me to develop my thoughts here based on different possible scenarios.

For illustration purposes, I will base my examples on the deliberately simplified basic situation and the following assumptions:

  • A person (or couple) who has long been accustomed to a frugal lifestyle and who only needs 5,000 francs per month (60,000 francs per year).
  • The children no longer live at home.
  • The stock portfolio offers an average dividend yield of 4% (a high but achievable value, especially with stocks acquired several years ago and which regularly increase their distributions).

“Late” version and living solely on dividends

For example, we stop working at 58. For tax reasons, the 2nd and 3rd pillars are withdrawn entirely in the form of capital over 3 years (each time approximately a third at 58, 59 and 60) and invested in shares.

At this time, the savings (750,000 francs) + the pension fund capital (500,000 francs) + the 3rd pillar (250,000 francs) give a total fortune (portfolio) of 1.5 million.

All the wealth is invested in shares, representing an annual income of 60,000 francs.

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Comment: This version is very attractive in terms of income and security, but it involves working until quite an old age. In addition, In the end, it offers too much income "unnecessarily", because after a few years the dividends will have inexorably increased and the AVS pension will soon be added to this passive income which has already become too high!

In fact, from the age of 65, the AVS pension of 2,370 francs (for a single person) or 3,555 francs per month (for a couple) is added.

Softer version

From the same starting point, for example, 1.3 million is invested in shares (annual income 52,000 francs). The remaining 200,000 francs are kept in a much more liquid manner (cash, money market funds, cash bonds, etc.) and are used to supplement the "salary" if necessary or occasionally cover large expenses (purchase of a new car, major medical expenses, etc.).

The "liquid" portion of the portfolio serves as a safety cushion, an airbag against financial unforeseen events.

“Living only from the consumption of one’s capital” version

Typical operation: consumption of 4% of its capital each year, over a period of 25 years (for example, an initial capital of 1.5 million allows you to withdraw 60,000 francs per year for 25 years).

This is the version that many financial advisors offer and which I will not use here, not only because it may not work if you live beyond 25 years. ("longevity risk"), but also because it does not use the fantastic possibilities offered by the stock market and dividends.

“Reduce your working hours” version

There are many possible variations here, for example reducing your working time to 50% once the passive income from your dividends has managed to cover this shortfall, or reducing your professional activity little by little, for example in tranches of 20% every 5 years.

Mixed version

Like investing half of your fortune in shares and taking the rest from your capital each year.

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Semi-retirement version at 50 with a small additional lucrative activity

Our man declares himself independent and withdraws his 2nd and 3rd pillar. He then has: savings 500,000 francs, 2nd pillar 325,000 francs, 3rd pillar 175,000 francs, i.e. a total fortune of 1 million. This capital is invested in shares and offers an annual income of 40,000 francs.

From 50 to 65 years old, this person works a few hours per week in order to earn what he lacks (around 1,700 francs per month in our example).

Ideally, it is a small activity that he enjoys and that does not occupy him more than 2 days a week (for example, helping with sales in a bakery on Saturdays, selling his homemade jams on the Internet, etc.).

At age 65, the AVS pension is added (I do not recommend taking it in advance: the reduction is in fact 13.6% if you take it in advance by 2 years).

Riskier version but allowing you to achieve financial independence earlier

This scenario could for example consist of leaving one's job at 50 years old with a fortune of 1.1 million. 1 million is placed at 4% (annual income is 40,000 francs), the rest is kept in cash.

The missing 20,000 francs per year are obtained by selling a few shares from time to time in the event of good stock market performance. If necessary (in bad stock market years), by taking this amount from the cash reserve.

After a few years already, the annual increase in dividends should make it possible to compensate for the negative influence of the sale of this small part of the portfolio and to live solely on its dividends.

In summary, in this scenario:

  • In bad stock market years, we live off our dividends and by drawing on our cash.
  • In years when our portfolio gains 2 or 5%, we sell 2 or 5% of its shares.

And finally, from time to time, we will have an exceptional stock market year, during which our portfolio will gain, for example, 20%. These 200,000 francs can be used to pad our cash cushion for many years. They can also be reinvested in stocks distributing dividends of 4%, increasing our annual income from 40,000 to 48,000 francs.

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What I want to illustrate with this example is that the starting figures should not be taken too literally. Stocks are not static entities and stock market history teaches us that both our portfolio and our dividends are doomed to increase over time..

Conclusion

Wanting at all costs to wait until having reached passive income necessary (60,000 francs per year in my example) to live your dream of financial independence, we condemn ourselves to wait longer than necessary to embark on this magnificent adventure.

What's more, after a few years we will find ourselves with a much higher pension than we need to live (increase in dividends, AVS pension). In other words, we will have worked all these extra years for nothing.

By daring to embark on the adventure early enough (for example at 50 years old) before having reached the income necessary to live (for example already once we receive 40,000 francs in dividends) and by putting a little cash aside to supplement our income in the first years (in the event of poor stock market performance), history shows us that we have every chance of doing very well.

After 5 or 10 years, the increase in the size of the portfolio and dividends should allow us to live well without having to draw on our cash reserves (or by selling a fraction of our portfolio). Not to mention that the AVS pension will be added to our dividends from the age of 65.

The stock market is unpredictable in the short term, but its trend is clearly bullish over a longer time horizon. Let's not let its short-term hormonal imbalances put a spoke in the wheels of our long-term goals and dreams.

Why kill yourself working until you're 60, when by planning things carefully and accepting, if necessary, not to live from the first day of your financial independence only on its dividends (i.e. by drawing on your capital or cash reserve in the first years if necessary), you can regain this freedom that was priceless even 10 years earlier?


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10 thoughts on “Vivre de ses revenus ou consommer son capital – présentation de scénarios possibles”

  1. Eh eh dividinde. Thanks for this great article too.
    Sometimes when I read you, and I've already told you this, I get scared, because I feel like I'm reading myself.
    In short, your conclusion resonates perfectly with me since I have been saying since the beginning of my adventure that financial independence is not a distant dream for anyone who embarks on this project. It is above all a state of mind. If we have the latter, if we commit to this path with the necessary motivation, the results will be seen quickly. We do not need to wait 10, 20 or 30 years to "become" a rentier. This is exactly what I explain in detail in my e-book "Profession Rentier", also giving several scenarios and possible ways to transform one's life without having to wait for a hypothetical date or a hypothetical amount.
    In my case, in 19 years, I have multiplied by 50 my capital invested in the stock market, but above all I have almost halved my working time (it must be said that I was starting from a very high point). For me it is this last point that is important. Winning on the stock market is good, succeeding in realizing it in quality of life as quickly as possible is much better.
    In the different scenarios that you have indicated, it should also be specified that they can (and even should) evolve over time, typically a gradual decrease in the activity rate and/or small independent additional activities, until stopping working completely when one wishes (and if one wishes).

    PS: dividinde, if you haven't read my e-book yet, let me know, I'll send it to you for free for "services rendered" 🙂

    1. Thank you Jerome for your pertinent comment and your very generous offer. It is true that I have never read your e-book and it is high time to remedy this omission!

      On the other hand – and sorry if this sounds old-fashioned – it is important to me to pay for it, because I know the time and energy you have invested in it and getting it for free would mean for me not recognizing your work at its true value.

  2. Hello, thank you for your thoughts on how to be able to at least partially quit your job and live off your stock market capital.
    I would like to receive Jérome's ebook entitled "profession rentier", could you give me the procedure to follow?
    THANKS

    Jean Philippe

  3. Thank you Dividende. The thoughts that Jérôme and yourself have made on the subject of the question "dividends and/or capital to finance one's retirement" are very interesting and very useful. It is enlightening to put the figures in black and white and to do simulations to move away from myths and other preconceptions.

    But it remains that it must be psychologically, more or less depending on the person, difficult to draw on capital, which is not only a source of income if it is correctly invested but also a safety cushion. By nature, human beings generally need security, respectively to feel safe, what is more that if the past is known, the future is uncertain.

    So even if the figures show that it is possible to eat the capital in addition to using the dividends, it takes a certain courage, strength of character and/or a good dose of self-confidence to take the step.

    I think that to partly alleviate the feeling of insecurity, it is supposed to always keep an income from work, even if it is modest in terms of time spent.

    1. 100 % agree with you. As I indicate in my ebook, it is also the preferred path in terms of risk management, well-being, speed in reaching one's goal and it even has many advantages in terms of social insurance.

  4. It is certain that psychological pressure can be difficult to manage, especially at the beginning. But I believe that good preparation will help to manage this transition period more calmly.

    What I mean by good preparation:

    – Have a cash reserve that allows you to manage hard knocks/unforeseen events for the first 5 to 10 years.

    – Know the average annual increase in your dividends. Statistics like “over the last 10 years, my dividends have increased by an average of 5% per year, with only 2% of growth in the worst year and 8% in the best” are very reassuring.

    – Study its historical performance, like: over the last 10 years, my portfolio has gained an average of 6% per year; the worst year was a loss of 15% and the best year a gain of 20%.

    – Another interesting calculation: Over the last decade, I could have consumed x% of my capital each year without it negatively impacting my passive income.

    – Know when you will receive your AVS pension or when you will be able to withdraw your 3rd pillar, for example.

    It's true that past performance is no guarantee of future returns, but it does give an excellent approximation of what you can expect to achieve.

  5. I came across this article by a guy who retired in 1994 at the age of 38 and is taking stock 20 years later:

    http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/20year.html

    The most interesting lesson is that he retired once he had saved 25x his annual expenses, which is the famous annual withdrawal of 4%. 20 years later, AFTER consuming more than 4% per year (4% + inflation), he finds himself with a portfolio that has roughly quadrupled and he now only needs to consume 1% of his capital to cover his annual expenses!

    This shows once again the extraordinary potential of the stock market and compound interest. This guy has been through the big crises of 2000-2002 and 2007-2008, but he has stuck to his strategy and ends up with much more than he had imagined 20 years before. He says his only regret is not having retired even earlier!

    His article is exactly in line with what I was saying: waiting too long to retire by trying to be too cautious means wasting years of freedom for nothing, only to end up with more than you need to live on.

    1. That's clear! And that's why I've already significantly reduced my working hours.
      Well the guy can console himself and live the high life now!

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