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Copycat,
What you say is absolutely correct, you can buy and sell EUR and USD freely. I think it does not apply to me because I have a lombard in CHF so if I sell a position in USD, it will not go to my USD but to my CHF. But hey, what I wrote is therefore not correct in a normal situation.
I forgot an important point above:
It often happens that companies increase their capital, issue new shares, offer free shares instead of a cash dividend. It also happens that a major shareholder offers to buy back minority shareholders' shares at a price (often rotten). In short, sometimes the individual shareholder must be contacted by the company via the broker and his opinion asked. Swissquote sends an electronic form to your inbox and you can respond electronically (e.g. do you want the dividend in cash? if so, for how many shares?). Tradedirect, as for them, will send you the same question by paper mail and you will have to respond by paying postage for the mail yourself.
@Copycat, thank you, you are right, indeed there is no comparison. And Birdie's last post confirms it.
I find Birdie's presentation excellent and I am reproducing its structure below with the two brokers that I know:
Deposit fees
I have been using Migros Bank for a very long time, but as my capital increased, I gradually became more and more nervous about the deposit fees they have. At first you don't realize it, but over the years it becomes really prohibitive, especially since there is no limit! I also tried to contact them, but nothing doing. So I started to transfer my assets to Postfinance. They contributed CHF 800 to the transfer fees. And with them the fees are TOTALLY free. I can tell you that it is very appreciable, especially when you have a well-stocked portfolio, with few transactions. It is true that compared to Swissquote the purchase/sale fees are a little higher, but in my situation it does not bother me, quite the contrary.
Lombard Credit
Neither at Migros Bank nor at Postfinance. Which doesn't bother me, I don't need this service.
Tax declaration
Thanks Birdie for coming to this topic because this story is always a big scam... Migros Bank charges monstrous rates. I prefer to manage on my own using the annual closing papers and the free software provided by the tax department. It requires a lot of work, especially because of the dividends. But I don't want to pay several hundred francs for just a paper of a few pages. As for the post office, I haven't tried it yet.
Opening of values
Many values are not initially open for online trading on Banque Migros when looking for less popular foreign securities. On the other hand, they are not annoying, you just have to make a very simple online request and within 24 hours they open the position. If you are in a hurry you can go by phone. But less is enough for me like this. For Postfinance for the moment what I noticed is that you cannot make purchases on NYSE Arca. I asked them to open the value for online trading, but it is not possible. To be transmitted via telephone order… too bad.
Registration in the register of shareholders
No problem with Migros Bank, free of course. Postfinance, unless I'm mistaken, it's identical.
User-friendliness of the website
For what I do, Migros Bank and Postfinance are fine for me. But for fans of charts and technical analysis, this may not be enough...
Customer Service
Excellent at both. I found the Postfinance hotline (24/24) really very professional. For Banque Migros it was my advisor who called me. So nothing to complain about.
Also account in EUR, USD
At Swissquote my account is in CHF only which means that I suffer an exchange rate effect with each purchase AND sale of foreign shares, thus increasing my exchange rate risk. At Tradedirect, I have a multi-currency account which allows me to keep the currency when I sell a share or when I transfer from CHF to USD/EUR.
Purchase and sale slips
Generated in pdf or paper (your choice) on Banque Migros. For Postfinance it seems to me it is exclusively online, but to tell the truth I have not really looked for the option for the paper version which does not interest me.
Year-end recap
No summary as explained by Birdie for Migros Bank. For Postfinance I don't know yet.
Trade policy
Migros Bank and Postfinance are absolutely correct from this point of view. They are reliable and trustworthy partners.
USD/CHF/EUR accounts
By default only a CHF account at Migros bank linked to the deposit account => therefore currency conversion for each dividend received. For Postfinance automatic opening, accounts in the three currencies are free.
In summary, I am happy with both, but it is really a shame about the Migros Bank policy regarding custody fees that are dissuasive for large portfolios. The big plus of Postfinance is the free ancillary services and deposit fees. There is no comparison here... no hidden fees and bad surprises.
There is also something that we have not talked about: the fees for paying money from the securities liquidity account… always useful when you are (or will be) a rentier. Many brokers charge fees when you pay money into these accounts. This is obviously not the case at Postfinance and Banque Migros.
Hello everyone ,
I'm digressing a bit from the subject but anyway,,,, I would like to know if some of you, being French residents, have opened accounts with Swissquote and made significant transfers (say in the 2-300k) this is what I intend to do for reasons of legal ownership of the securities and I wonder if the tax authorities are putting up any hassle,,,,
for the moment I have accounts with bourso, IB, Tradestation (the last two to be able to use the options)
FYI, Postfinance refuses to open a securities account for French tax residents. Even if Swiss, having resided since your birth and until 5 years ago in Switzerland and having the modest sum of 200,000 CHF in your current account opened more than 30 years ago. The simple fact of residing on the other side of customs closes their doors to you.
During my research on Swiss and foreign brokers, I came across the following article
http://www.moneyland.ch/resources/public/vendors/kcfinder/upload/files/LeTemps-sites-de-courtage-tarifs-2014.pdf
For Switzerland there is a newcomer, Corner Trader, which I did not know and whose rates are the cheapest, even if the example of 2092CHF of trading fees for a portfolio of 75300CHF can make you think.
Even at this price, the only winner from all these trades is likely to be the broker.I had also seen this article at the time. I repeat, you should not focus on transaction fees. When you invest in buy & hold you must also and above all see the hidden fees such as deposit fees or cash transfer fees. I was not able to find these indications on Corner Trader… that is already a bad sign.
Yes, you are absolutely right not to focus on brokerage fees.
In my case, I am in the portfolio construction phase (migrating from a fund portfolio to individual securities and a few ETFs).
Considering the currently high valuations of good stocks, I would like to gain exposure to the market through successive purchases spread over a long period.
So that's a lot of small orders that end up costing a lot with the tranche system adopted by Swiss brokers. Or, to optimize, you would have to systematically buy for 9999USD, which costs 35USD at Swissquote and 40USD at Postfinance, but that takes away a lot of flexibility.I understand the problem because I have also been confronted with it. At first we fixate on these brokerage fees, with good reasons. Then the portfolio grows and one day we find ourselves with few transactions (if we are buy&hold) and deposit fees that eat up part of the dividend income. Which is unbearable. So we are stuck, with this unfair levy, even without doing anything, and low brokerage fees but which are a pain in the neck. So, when you think about transferring your securities to another provider, you realize that it is a real organized theft for each position you hold. And of course the lower the brokerage fees, the more positions you have...
The team are not stupid. They know that with cheap brokerage fees they will attract you like rats with cheese at the bottom of a cage.For all intents and purposes, I have made a written request to Cornertrader regarding the various points (deposit fees, liquidity transfer fees, etc.). To be continued if they are willing to respond.
Here are the questions I asked Cornertrader and their answers.
Don't worry, it didn't take them all that long to respond, it was just me who was late.– Deposit fees: Do you charge this type of fee?
There is no deposit fee.– Multi-currency account: Is it possible to have a multi-currency account CHF, EUR, USD, CAD, AUD, … and manage transfers between currencies yourself? If so, what are the currency conversion fees?
Yes, you can have multiple sub-accounts in any desired currency.
Transfers between currencies are done by ourselves at a cost of: spot exchange rate + 0.5%– Registration in the shareholder register: Do you offer this service for Swiss shares?
No– Apart from Traderscard, how is it possible to transfer funds to another bank? What are the conditions and possible fees?
You ask us by letter to make a transfer from your CornèrTrader account to the desired account with all the banking information.
No transfer fees.– Year-end summary: Is it possible to see how much the portfolio has grown in the past year (in percentage, taking into account in and out movements, exchange rates, etc.)?
You have different reports according to different periods and criteria and by product processed. These are performance reports, commission reports, interest reports, etc.– Management of double taxation avoidance agreements: Are you able to implement these agreements and, consequently, do you apply the minimum withholding tax rates mentioned in these bilateral agreements?
No, we don't handle that.– What are the costs of transferring securities to another establishment in Switzerland or abroad?
No feesNo bad surprises then, except the impossibility of registering Swiss shares in the shareholders' register.
Interesting, thanks for the feedback.
By the way, do you know if it is possible to trade MLPs with them?Above all, remember that over time:
1. Your wallet will grow in size (hopefully upwards).
2. The broker/bank may change its rates overnight.
3. The broker/bank may withdraw from the local market, may be acquired or may merge with another market player.Point 1) is not a problem in itself (quite the contrary)
), on the other hand it will have an influence on your costs. Point 2) is difficult to control and, most certainly, you will not be able to transfer your portfolio to another establishment without losing feathers.As for point 3), you can minimize the risks by choosing a broker/platform that is also a bank, and not just a broker, whether in Switzerland or offshore.
@Jerome
I didn't go to that level of detail but you can ask them. https://www.cornertrader.ch/fr/trading-insight-support/contact/ and see how they react.
I thought that MLPs were not interesting for non-US residents because of their special taxation.
@birdienumnum
Regarding your comments:
1) Hence the interest in having low transaction fees and the lowest possible deposit fees because they are often a percentage of the portfolio amount.2) Yes, but this is the case for every broker (and business for that matter). Just look at Swissquote, which doubles its deposit fees on a whim. Competition is very weak in Switzerland and no player is going to risk undercutting prices.
3) The risk of disappearance or merger exists but, apart from the obligation to find another broker, this will not jeopardize the portfolio.
In this case, it turns out that CornerTrader is not a broker but a service of Corner Bank. https://www.cornertrader.ch/fr/corner-way/about-corner-bank.Disclosure: No commercial or other link with CornerTrader
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