Brokerage fees

[copycat10]

Which broker (Switzerland) do you use?

 

I have been with Swissquote for 5 years.

I came across Saxobank whose transaction fees are significantly cheaper (almost 50%) and which has no management fees.

 

Their testing platform seems to be up to par, although more complicated than Swissquote's. 

Has anyone used or is using the SaxoWebTrader platform?

 

Thank you for your feedback

[Jerome]

It's true that the brokerage fees seem cheap, but since I'm a buy&hold investor, with little movement in my portfolio, what bothers me the most is this:

• Saxo Bank (Schweiz) AG does not charge account maintenance fees. if the account has at least one trading activity (e.g. purchase/sale of securities) in the previous 6 months or in the case of an available cash balance greater than CHF 25,000 (or equivalent in another currency). 
• For accounts that do not meet the conditions mentioned above, a semi-annual account maintenance fee of CHF 100 will be debited (January and July).

In case the amount available in the account does not cover the account maintenance fees, Saxo Bank (Schweiz) AG may sell positions in the deposit to cover the account maintenance fees. (on this subject see the General Conditions). 

 

200.- account maintenance fees per year (if no movement) which can also trigger a sale of positions, that bothers me a little...

[Jerome]

I use e-trading from Postfinance. It is very practical if you also have a current account at the post office. The purchase costs are around 35 chf (including taxes and stamp duty) for an amount close to 5000 chf. No management fees or unacceptable conditions like at SaxoBank. The interface is clear and accounts in chf, euros and usd are automatically opened upon registration.

 

Happy Sunday

 

Jean-Louis

[Jerome]

Hi Jean-Louis

You are right to mention Postfinance because I have been eyeing them for quite some time precisely because of the free custody fees. When you start on the stock market you don't look at this aspect too much and you are mainly interested in transaction fees. This is normal: portfolio to set up, lots of securities to buy, and tendency to make quite a few transactions. Subsequently, as you gain experience, you become more conservative, you buy a little less, and above all you sell a lot less. But on the other hand, you have more capital invested, so more custody fees. And there it even becomes scandalous at certain institutional banks. 

Swissquote is not too bad from this point of view because the transaction and custody fees are correct. The latter are even capped at CHF 50. Tradedirect is not too bad either, but the fees are capped at CHF 100. In many banks these fees are not only expensive, but not capped and you can lose a lot of money there.

Postfinance is only slightly more expensive than Swissquote for transactions, but since custody fees are free, buy&hold investors are more than happy with it. In addition, cash transfers to a current account are free, which is very practical when you are a rentier and want to withdraw your dividends...

In short, Jean-Louis, you only confirm all the good things I think about Postfinance recently and it is possible that I will switch to them in the future.

[Jerome]

I came across the following document which dates from 2011 but offers an interesting comparison:

http://www.rts.ch/la-1ere/programmes/on-en-parle/3520980.html/BINARY/Acheter%20et%20vendre%20des%20actions%20sur%20une%20plateforme%20boursi%C3%A8re%20en%20ligne%20-%20comparatif%20des%20frais

 

I hope the link works… if not I have a pdf available

[Jerome]

Ah, this table is excellent! Too bad, the only thing missing is the money transfer fees. It makes me laugh to see Direct net in last position… I started with them in 2000 and left shortly after for e-sider (now tradedirect), finding them much too expensive.

[copycat10]

Superb painting indeed and excellent answers as always on this forum

I hadn't actually thought about PostFinance at all, which actually seems better "for retirement".

 

Thank you very much for your feedback.

[Jerome]

Additional information about Postfinance that may interest more than one: they can participate (up to a certain point) in the transfer fees of securities requested by your current bank to go to them… This team is really very strong. In addition, it is the confederation that is behind it… so in terms of risk… it holds up!

[DSwissK]

Jerome said
Additional information about Postfinance that may interest more than one: they can participate (up to a certain point) in the transfer fees of securities requested by your current bank to go to them… This team is really very strong. In addition, it is the confederation that is behind it… so in terms of risk… it holds up!

How did you get them to contribute to the cost? I called them this week and they said they were not aware of this "promotion". 

 

[Jerome]

Request an appointment with a postfinance advisor, by calling them or going directly to a post office.

[dom67]

I also looked into the issue of choosing an online broker.
For German speakers (and others because it's easy to understand), here is a current table (March 2013)
http://news.investory.eu/wp-content/uploads/Handelszeitung_14032013.pdf
and also an article by K-Geld (normally paid but available on the Stratéo site because they are featured well there!) At the very least the tables are understandable even if you don't read German.
https://www.strateo.ch/images/press/01_02_13/K-Geld_01_02_13.pdf

 
In summary, this gives me:
– Postfinance: Interesting for large portfolios (no deposit fees) provided that you make very few transactions because transaction fees are not cheap (35CHF from 5000CHF, 40USD from 5000USD)

– Migros Bank: Interesting if placing very large orders, thanks to the transaction fee capped at CHF 40, but high deposit fees

– Swissquote has correct rates for deposit fees but average for brokerage, or it quickly becomes expensive for orders exceeding 10,000 (50 from 10,000 to 15,000 and 75 from 15,000 to 25,000). Swissquote is however interesting for the purchase of partner Funds / ETFs at a rate of 9CHF

– Stratéo, a newcomer that isn’t one, since it’s the former Keytrade, seems rather interesting with deposit fees capped at 100CHF per year and competitive transaction rates, even if we can deplore the overly wide bracket of 2000-20000 for 24.95CHF. As I like to spread my orders in tranches of 10000 for price smoothing purposes, this would force me to pay 24.95CHF twice to invest 20000.
For the purchase of ETFs, Strateo also offers a rate of 9CHF but only for Commerzbank ETFs.

So my understanding is this:
– With a large portfolio and very few or very small transactions, Postfinance is the most interesting
– For the purchase of Funds / ETFs, Swissquote is the most interesting
– The best mix might well be Stratéo. Does anyone have any experience with this broker to share with us? Thanks in advance.

[Jerome]

Thanks for this interesting post dom67

I have recently become a user of Postfinance, which I find good for my situation, with few orders placed and a well-stocked portfolio.

I also know Banque Migros, which is also good, except that the deposit fees are really too high because they are not capped. And then it is true that the flat rate requires you to place large orders. And that is even why it is interesting.

Swissquote has a very good reputation and on paper it looks good too, but I don't know it as a user.

I don't know Stratéo at all...

Surprisingly none of these tests mention tradedirect, formerly e-sider, with Banque Cantonale Vaudoise acting as a deposit, it is also a fairly good compromise in my opinion.

[birdienumnum]

Choosing your broker using a comparison table is a good start, but all the comparisons show more or less the same thing: brokerage fees, account fees, entry and exit fees, deposit fees.

On the other hand, there are certain aspects or details that can only be known after the fact (because no newspaper or specialized site seems to have taken note of them). Here is my experience with 2 brokers: Swissquote And Tradedirect.

 

Deposit fees

For a long time Tradedirect (formerly e-sider) charged deposit fees as a percentage of the value of the portfolio. This didn't bother me when I started but as my portfolio grew it became more and more expensive. I contacted them to ask for an exemption/package but of course I was refused. Recently they switched to a capping method but any client under the old percentage method had to make a formal request to switch to the capping method as long as they were aware of the new conditions...a practice bordering on dishonesty in my opinion.

Swissquote, for their part, have applied a cap on deposit fees of up to CHF 100 per year + VAT, but this has just been increased to CHF 200 + VAT last April....neither seen nor known, if I may say so, since I discovered it on my new quarterly invoice. Do you know many service companies that double their rates in one fell swoop?

 

Lombard Credit

Tradedirect does not offer this service. Swissquote does.

 

Tax declaration

You can request a tax return from Swissquote. The cost is CHF 100 + VAT if I remember correctly and regardless of the number of positions. For Tradedirect, I made a request and they could not answer me right away on the price….they called me back later to tell me that the price depended on the number of securities/positions…..and it was very prohibitive!

 

Opening of values

For some reason, Tradedirect has trouble keeping up with splits, IPOs and new values. I remember that the day after a stock split, I had to ask them to open the new value… it was for a big, well-known company. I have also often asked to open values. Swissquote does not have this problem.

Similarly, when there is a stock split or a particular operation that influences the cost price of the position, Tradedirect seems to have difficulty recalculating the cost price. I had to call several times. Not this problem at Swissquote.

 

Registration in the register of shareholders

For Swiss stocks, if you want to receive information from the company or participate in general meetings, the broker will have to register you in the company's shareholder register. This is done automatically at Tradedirect but it will cost you CHF 20 per position at Swissquote.

 

User-friendliness of the website

Both sites are quite pleasant to use, with an advantage for Swissquote.

 

Customer Service

With Tradedirect I had to contact them several times on a particular subject. Not good. The employees are however courteous, friendly and seem well trained. At Swissquote, if you call and have a rather specific question you risk being transferred to a colleague in Zurich who will ask you if you speak English!

 

Also account in EUR, USD

At Swissquote my account is in CHF only which means that I suffer an exchange rate effect with each purchase AND sale of foreign shares, thus increasing my exchange rate risk. At Tradedirect, I have a multi-currency account which allows me to keep the currency when I sell a share or when I transfer from CHF to USD/EUR.

 

Purchase and sale slips

When buying or selling, a slip is generated in a few minutes (pdf) at Swissquote on the stock account. At Tradedirect, a pdf is also generated but it takes a little longer (but it's not so bad because some brokers issue the slips the next day). On the other hand, you have to go and get the slip from your BCV bank account, it is not generated on the Tradedirect account. Weird.

 

Year-end recap

At Swissquote, I can see how much my portfolio has progressed in the past year (as a percentage, taking into account in and out movements, exchange rates, etc.). At Tradedirect, it's impossible to know. It's not rocket science, you don't have to make complicated algorithms and it seems to me to be essential information that any client would like to have!

 

Trade policy

As I wrote above, Tradedirect is not very good in terms of commercial policy. In my opinion, they changed their name late (change of direction?) from an apple cider name to a more striking name. By the way, they left feathers there in terms of branding. It also seems that they realized a little late that the Swiss market was also in German-speaking Switzerland! Another point that I find annoying is to practice offers like "CHF 100 free trade for new customers" while already captive customers who have already paid thousands of francs in brokerage get nothing.

Swissquote has less dubious practices, although the doubling of their deposit fees left me somewhat scratching my head.

 

Well, I hope I was able to help some people.

 

 

[copycat10]

birdienumnum said

Also account in EUR, USD

At Swissquote my account is in CHF only which means that I suffer an exchange rate effect with each purchase AND sale of foreign shares, thus increasing my exchange rate risk. At Tradedirect, I have a multi-currency account which allows me to keep the currency when I sell a share or when I transfer from CHF to USD/EUR.

 

Excellent comparison, thank you very much!

However, at Swissquote it is possible to have EUR and USD in your account, this even comes automatically into the USD sub-account when selling positions.

In any case, on my account, I just have to buy USD by clicking on buy and the amount is debited from my CHF account.

I can then use this amount to make transactions in greenbacks.

[dom67]

@birdienumnum Thank you for this very useful additional information with good questions to ask a broker as a future client. It is true that it is not only the price that counts but seen from the outside, it is the easiest to compare. Swissquote having a quasi-dominant position, we read a lot of negative things about their account. This is why I was looking for an alternative like Stratéo which looks good on paper.
The multi-currency account is an absolute must. Not having it would be a disqualification criterion.

@Jerome Tradedirect is mentioned in http://news.investory.eu/wp-content/uploads/Handelszeitung_14032013.pdf in penultimate position. 8300 customers compared to >200000 for Swissquote. No contest.

[Author]

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