- This topic has 76 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 11 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
At the time I had a UBS fund like that, with reinvestment of income. But I sold it because it no longer corresponded to my strategy… and then I find it quite opaque.
Tax software, sometimes even government-provided software, automatically calculates the taxable return for you, even if the money is reinvested in the fund.
Thanks for your answer. I asked the question in general but I was mainly thinking about exotic market ETFs or portfolio funds of funds like Templeton Global Total Return or M6G Optimal Income.
I assume that the tax software only handles products referenced in Switzerland. So I would not be interested in buying a US ETF, such as Vanguard.VStax for example manages a good part of US stocks. On the other hand, there is no Templeton or Vanguard.
Well, I continued my research and found this site: http://www.ictax.admin.ch/static/fr/index.html
I found data for a few funds there but nothing for almost all foreign funds.
So if anyone, resident in Switzerland and having in their portfolio funds/ETFs not referenced by the tax administration, could tell me how the tax declaration works, I would be infinitely grateful.No, I don't dare ask the tax authorities any questions.
An old trauma that I have kept from France, where when you ask a question, you don't get the answer but a tax audit!
I will ask my banker about it though. He should know that.
It still surprises me that no one is in the same kind of situation as me. Of course it is better to invest directly in stocks but on some markets it is almost impossible and then ETFs are so widespread these days.Yes the banker should be able to answer you! He is paid for that.
Otherwise another possibility: you don’t declare anything…
Well, it's no joke in France! If you're treated like that, I'm not surprised that you prefer to hide everything from the taxman!
Jerome said
Otherwise another possibility: you don’t declare anything…Yes indeed, in the short term, not declaring anything still works in Switzerland but with everything that is currently being discussed on the automatic exchange of information, in a short time the banks will also transmit the data to the Swiss tax authorities and then, it could cost a lot + fine + interest.
Well, it's no joke in France! If you're treated like that, I'm not surprised that you prefer to hide everything from the taxman!
In France, the taxpaying citizen is at the service of the State and not the other way around as should be the case.
Yes the banker should be able to answer you! He is paid for that.
In my experience, if you are not a good customer of the bank (i.e. having substantial assets in said bank AND buying their rotten and overtaxed products), the bank advisor will dodge any questions relating to taxes, invoking the fact that he is not competent in the matter. On the other hand, if you have several millions in assets in the bank, the same advisor will redirect you to his tax department and you will be very well advised!
Dividend taxation:
Rather than worrying about taxing French income, I dumped everything and invested the corresponding Euros in Northern European securities – Germany, Holland and Finland –
Bilateral tax recovery agreements with these countries are much clearer and less voracious.
I just received my 2013 tax notice: includes full social security contributions for the years 2012 – 2013.
(For French income, I had those from SCPI securities and shares which I have not yet managed to get rid of)
Switzerland not being a member of the European Community for 2 years, social security contributions are 66 % – approximately
I am obliged to advance it, until the judgment of the European Court is put into practice - then it will be some time before the reimbursements are made. Given the situation of the State's finances, I think
that I will have to wait several years – Given my age, it is unlikely that I will receive these reimbursements in my lifetime
so I will bequeath by will this amount to be recovered to my favorite nephew –
Jerome said
for Swiss securities it is 35% of withholding tax, recoverable when declared on the income part of the tax return
for foreign securities such as US it is 15% of non-recoverable foreign tax + 15% of recoverable Swiss tax when declared on the income part of the tax returnI came across the following passage on the tax website for the canton of Geneva (see in particular the ***):
"Switzerland has concluded conventions with certain third countries for the avoidance of double taxation, in the matter of dividends, interest and royalties from licenses. These avoid double taxation by offering the beneficiary domiciled in Switzerland ***the possibility of requesting a reduction in Swiss taxes in compensation for foreign taxes which are not likely to be recovered***. The reduction in question consists of a flat-rate imputation of tax."
Then on the page:
We find the following passage:
The conventions concluded or revised since 1965 avoid double taxation by offering beneficiaries domiciled in Switzerland the possibility of requesting a reduction in Swiss taxes to offset the taxes levied by these States on dividends, interest and license fees and which are not recoverable. The reduction in question consists of a flat-rate imputation of tax, under the terms of the Federal Council Ordinance of 22 August 1967 on the flat-rate imputation of tax. On 9 March 2001, this Ordinance was adapted to the system of annual postnumerando taxation of direct taxes of the Confederation, cantons and communes. Taxes actually levied during a year in the Contracting States listed in Annex II, which the said States are not obliged to relieve under the applicable convention, are, under certain conditions, *** reimbursed by Switzerland in whole or in part to the recipient of the income who is domiciled there; this relief is carried out in a manner comparable to that of the federal withholding tax***. As its name indicates, the imputation of tax is a flat rate, that is to say that it is carried out globally for all income originating in the Contracting States, in a single amount, without there being any need for distribution on each particular Swiss tax.
(…)
10. Payment of the amount of the fixed tax deduction
The amount of the flat-rate tax deduction is paid according to cantonal practice, either by ***imputation on taxes (deduction on the tax slip), or in cash***.–> If I understand correctly, the “non-recoverable” 15% on US dividends could constitute a discount, is that correct?
Hello J@L
I'm not an expert, but it was stated on a forum that non-recoverable 15%s are not a discount:
As for the US recovery, this must reach a certain amount –
My tax experience on the subject: a headache unless you have a detailed statement from your manager at the end of the year –
In fact, quarterly incomes are at different rates, the value of wealth at the end of the year is also different –
I had been interested in three highly recommended stocks, but unfortunately no account had been taken of a less promising financial future.
because it should be taken into account that in Europe
Coca-Cola – Anti-Obesity Campaigns –
Lorillard: Anti-smoking programs
VCO: Vino da Concha: Very important and profitable vineyards in Chile…but what about the health of their currency….So: everything is played out during the annual taxation. There are one or two forms to fill out to request a refund of the flat-rate imputation (other countries) or the additional USA withholding.
For Valais: http://www.vs.ch/Data/formule/DS_10/fml_0000001963.pdf (US+other countries)
For the canton of Vaud:
http://www.vd.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/organisation/dfin/aci/fichiers_pdf/DA-1_2013.pdf (other countries)
http://www.vd.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/organisation/dfin/aci/fichiers_pdf/R-US_164_2013.pdf (USA)
I haven't found any for Geneva.All this is heavy and complex. To avoid racking your brains, it is best to use the software provided by the cantonal administrations; the forms for refunding withholding tax, additional USA withholding tax and flat-rate imputation are done automatically.
For Geneva: http://www.getax.ch/support/telecharger
For Vaud: http://www.vd.ch/themes/etat-droit-finances/impots/vaudtax/vaudtax-2013/telecharger-vaudtax-2013/
For Valais: http://www.vs.ch/Public/public_fml/fml_list.asp?Language=fr&MenuID=31859&Code=VSTAX13&ServiceID=10&Color=10An interesting link from the tax administration of the canton of Bern:
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Français 
English 
Italiano 
Deutsch 
Español 
Português