Sometimes a stock goes south after you've just bought it. Other times, you've owned a stock for a long time, having made a substantial capital gain, and then it starts to plummet too. In both cases, you find yourself borrowed, without really knowing what to do. Should you buy even more to take advantage of the cheaper price? Or sell to avoid more losses (stop loss)? Or simply do nothing?
Most of the time, the latter is the best option. Prices are erratic in the short term. They move for reasons that have more to do with crowd psychology than the intrinsic value of companies. If you sell at this time, there is a good chance that the price will go right back up. Buying can be an option, but it also means increasing your risk by concentrating more assets in one position. Even if prices follow a random path in the short term, sometimes they fall for good reasons.
Check the fundamentals
In any case, it is necessary to check whether something has changed in the fundamentals. As long as these are positively oriented, there is generally no cause for concern. A check of the balance sheet and annual results is in principle sufficient to form an opinion. Profits are inherently inconsistent, especially in the short term. It is therefore neither useful nor even desirable to focus on quarterly or half-yearly results.
What does it mean to check the fundamentals? Here are some examples of simple questions to ask yourself:
- Is the company making a profit?
- Does it generate positive free cash flow?
- Are profits increasing (or at least stable)?
- Is the dividend increasing (or at least stable)?
- is that the distribution ratio is less than 70% (compared to profits and compared to free cash flow)?
- Is liquidity increasing (or at least stable)?
- Is the margin increasing (or at least stable)?
- Is profitability increasing (or at least stable)?
- Is long-term debt decreasing (or at least stable)?
- Is the number of shares outstanding decreasing (or at least stable)?
The more positively you answer these questions, the more likely it is that the market is going crazy for the wrong reasons. So you have every chance on your side that the stock price will quickly get back on track. But sometimes the market may take a long time to recognize its mistakes. Or it may have been right, anticipating a change in fundamentals thanks to inside information. It is behind this last argument that chartists hide to justify that there is no point in analyzing company balance sheets and results. According to them, all the necessary data is already in the prices.
Momentum effect
Research has proven the reliability of the fundamental “value” based approach. Technical analysis, on the contrary, has never clearly succeeded in demonstrating its effectiveness until now, with one exception: the momentum effect. A stock that has outperformed or underperformed over the last six or twelve months has every chance of doing the same in the following six to twelve months. This effect is limited to this duration, because beyond that, the opposite happens. This effect would be due to the propagation time of information that starts with insiders and ends up with the mass of investors.
This means, in the case at hand, that it is possible that negative events, likely to have a lasting impact on the company, start by causing the share price to fall before they become known to the general public, and that this effect also continues for several months afterwards. In total, this process can take up to two years, if we add up the 2x12 months of the momentum effect.
So how can you protect yourself from this problem? Even if you have controlled the fundamentals, you are not immune to a situation of this type. Following quarterly reports will not change much (you will not have the information before the market). On the contrary, it can even worry you wrongly because of the inconsistent nature of short-term profits.
Stop Loss
This is where chartists can paradoxically help us. Traders apply the 2:1 rule. In other words, if they expect to win 2$, they should not lose more than 1$. This ensures that losses are limited compared to potential gains. To do this, they set a sell order of the "stop loss" type, which in this example is 1$ below the purchase price and a sell limit order 2$ above the purchase price.
We understand quite well how this works for traders, on small price movements during the day, or even over a few days. But how can this principle be applied to long-term investors, who expect potentially unlimited gains, or at least of several hundred percentage points? Even assuming that one aims "only" to double one's investment within seven to eight years (which is a completely reasonable prospect), one should set a stop-loss order at 50% below the purchase price. This of course makes no sense.
That said, research has shown the effectiveness of stop loss orders placed 20% below the purchase price. This strategy is even more effective if the stop level is adjusted proportionally as the stock price rises ("trailing stop loss"). With this method, we can simultaneously reduce risk while increasing performance.
Why sell?
This approach may seem a bit unnatural for a value investor. I have personally wondered a lot about this. Why sell a stock, sometimes at a loss (if the stop level has not had time to rise to the purchase price), when the fundamentals are still good? There are two reasons that can explain why this strategy works:
- Even a solid company stock can be battered for long periods. By "exiting" the position when its momentum is bad (loss of 20% or more), you generally avoid a long crossing in the desert. You reposition your assets on other better oriented stocks, which have a good chance of doing better than the one you abandoned. There is nothing to prevent you from returning to them later. This essentially explains why this approach allows you to increase the performance of your portfolio.
- Sometimes the stock falls for very good reasons, which are not yet known by the market. By exiting the position at 20%, you limit your losses to this amount. When the bad news is fully integrated into the prices, the fall can end up being very brutal. This essentially explains why this approach allows you to reduce the risk of a portfolio.
Of course, this doesn't work all the time. It's all about probabilities. Most of the time, it's better to exit your position at 20% losses. But sometimes, you'll do it and the stock will come back very strongly right behind. It's only by repeating this principle several times over time, on several stocks, that you can really appreciate the validity of this principle.
"Manual" Stop Loss Strategy
To avoid false signals, it is better not to set an electronic stop loss or trailing stop loss order. These can be useful for traders who have a short-term investment horizon. In the long term, however, there is a strong chance that the market will "break down" at some point, for a moment. The price will collapse suddenly before immediately rising again. Triggering an order in this case would obviously be totally absurd. To do this, it is better to check on a regular basis, for example monthly, whether a security has lost 20% or more since purchase or since its last high. If this is the case, then it is sold "manually". The only risk then comes from the investor, who would not want to do it, for all sorts of reasons.
Conclusion
In short, if a stock goes down, we can say that:
- If the fundamentals have not changed unfavorably and the price has not fallen more than 20%, there is no need to worry.
- If the fundamentals have changed unfavorably or the price has fallen by more than 20%, it is worth selling the stock.
This strategy requires a little more work than a pure fundamental approach, with analysis of balance sheets and results once a year. You must therefore be prepared to monitor the evolution of the prices of your securities on a regular basis, i.e. once a month. You must also be psychologically prepared to get rid of securities that you bought for very good reasons. These are still relevant when you have to sell them. This approach is therefore much more restrictive not only in terms of time, but also, and above all, in psychological terms. However, if you succeed, the game is worth the candle.
Discover more from dividendes
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
Funny, I tend to list good opportunities by looking for companies with good fundamentals that are cheap. So mini-crashes seem to me to be good buying opportunities. I took a position on Sanei at the beginning of the month and can already count on a return of 2%. I think I will buy Tensho soon which is now almost too cheap for it to be true.
To be honest, after his last fall, Noda is also on a nice upward slope (admittedly not as clear as Mory). And Tensho just fell drastically yesterday. In my opinion, since the last collapse of their price, out of the 5 positions that crash despite good fundamentals, there is clearly 1 good sell (Nichrin), 2 question marks too early to judge (Sanei and Tensho) and 2 that you should have kept (Noda and Mory).
I'm surprised not to see Togami (6643), Fujitsu (6945), Kanemitsu (7208) and Nisshin (8881) and Mitsui (2109) in your list. All 5 would have added fuel to your fire.
But hey, this rule of 20% remains arbitrary and dependent on your input, therefore very variable and, ultimately, subjective. Unlike the fundamentals.
Dependent on the entry yes and no. Yes, totally, if it is the classic stop loss that applies, and that is where you take a loss. If the stock has had time to rise, it is less dependent on the entry, because it is the trailing stop that applies. In this case we base ourselves on the last high (since the purchase, of course) compared to the time of the check. You will also tell me that it is arbitrary in this case, because it depends on when you check during the month, it is true. On the other hand I would not say that it is subjective, it is a very factual rule of capital protection.
Regarding Togami, we could also have put it in the list, but it's a bit like Altria, it was first and foremost the fundamentals (decrease in the dividend) that dictated my choices).
Fujitsu, Mitsui and Nisshin: some of them are indeed likely to be dropped the next time I check them (I don't check all my stocks on the same day of the month). So watch this space.
Kanemitsu is not concerned since it was purchased in April of this year. So in this case you are totally right, it depends on when you take a position 🙂
Togami has fundamentals that have deteriorated too much? Tell me more, I'm interested since I have a share of it but I don't see anything particularly worrying.
You're going to tell me that I'm extreme, but if there's one thing I don't forgive, it's the dividend cut. I mentioned it here:
https://www.dividendes.ch/2018/02/analyse-de-togami-electric-mfg-co-ltd-6643tyo/
It is true that the rest is good, apart from perhaps the drop in profitability and margin.
You're going to tell me that I'm blind, but I don't see where the dividend has fallen. Where do you find the publication of the results with the announcement of the dividend reduction?
Idea to improve your site: there are often nuggets in the comments. It's a shame that they are not highlighted. Is it possible to have a thread where we could see the latest commented articles with a preview of the latter? Or a possibility to "subscribe" to new comments on articles that interest us without necessarily having to write something there.
I am basing this on FT's paid data.
Dividend reduced from 115 to 80 JPY
Ok, I added a comments thread on the right, good idea :)
Thank you for this excellent article. Indeed, it seems sensible to add other ingredients to pure fundamental analysis (which for me remains the basis) for the reasons mentioned in your article. But as it rightly points out, this requires more time and involves the risk of making bad decisions for psychological reasons.
Question: In the event of a major crash (like ".com" or "subprime") what are the consequences of the approach you are talking about?
Indeed, fundamental analysis remains the basis. This must really be considered as a rule for protecting capital.
Regarding the question, comparison is not reason, but assuming that we were invested at 100% in the S&P 500 to put it simply:
– we would have exited the index in March 2001, taking a loss of just over 20% and avoiding September 11. The lowest point was reached in September 2002 – a loss of 45% compared to the highest point.
– we would have left the index around September 20, 2008, before the big plunge at the end of September-beginning of October (the bottom was reached in March 2009)
Note that in this last case we would have been dependent on the time when the control was done. September 15 would have been perfect, with just 20% of losses. If we had just missed the boat and taken action a month later, we would have taken 40% in the teeth (the market ended up losing 55%).
Hence the importance of not checking all these titles at the same time.
It should also be noted that this does not tell us when it was necessary to return to the market.
Personally, I adopt a global approach, which also answers this last question:
– bottom-up with fundamental analysis, and now this capital protection rule
– top down with analysis of trends and valuations of different assets (https://www.dividendes.ch/allocation-dactifs/)
Very interesting discussions here!
I have used stop loss and trailing stop orders very often when day trading or swing trading. However, I believe that they are counterproductive in the context of a long-term strategy based on quality companies and oriented towards dividends. Selling a position because it has lost 20% means giving up on receiving your dividends and potentially missing out on a price gain of several hundred percent.
The main problem when selling a stock because it has fallen too much is knowing when to buy it back. If you sold a stock that has lost 20%, should you buy it back once it has lost 25, 40 or 50%? You don't know in advance how far it will fall and you risk never buying it back, which is the worst-case scenario!
It is true that this way of doing things disrupts our habits as fundamentalists, who are more used to trying to buy when the price is at its lowest. As you say, the 20% rule tells us when to exit, but not when to return to the stock. If there is one thing that many value-oriented investors know, it is that you should not catch a falling knife. In the case at hand, this means that the price must have stabilized. Again, this is quite relative, depending on each person's time horizon. We can use the momentum rule, which says that stocks that have outperformed or underperformed over the last 6 or 12 months are likely to continue their trend over the next 6 or 12 months. We should then wait until the price is at least equal to that of 6 or 12 months ago. There will inevitably be situations where this means buying back at the same level or even higher than where it was sold. This does not mean that this strategy is bad, because there are also many situations where we avoid bigger losses and where we can return to the stock at a much lower level. The important thing is that we find ourselves in the totality, which is the case according to the studies.
In a dividend-oriented approach, it may seem counterproductive to exit a stock on which you have obtained a good return on purchase cost. If you are not comfortable with this, you can stick to a stop loss of 20% based on the purchase time alone (no trailing). According to studies, this works better than buy&hold, but less well than trailing. You can also do it without any stop. You just have to accept taking bigger drops. This 20% approach nevertheless has the merit of allowing a reduction in risk, while increasing performance.
Let us also note that it is not because we have exited a stock paying increasing dividends at a given time that we lose all our seniority privileges. Yes, it is good to keep it for the very long term, but if we part with it for a certain time, we can very well come back to it a little later, even at a lower cost. At worst, we will have lost a few quarterly payments. Better: we can buy right behind a stock that has better fundamentals, and/or is cheaper and/or follows a better trend. The snowball effect therefore continues to operate.
As a long-term oriented shareholder more interested in dividends than stock market gains (I want to be a rentier and not rich!), I consider myself more of a co-owner of companies than a trader.
I wouldn't sell my house because a crack appeared, I wouldn't liquidate my own business because of a temporary drop in sales, I wouldn't leave my wife because she took 20 years... And it's the same with my stock portfolio. 🙂
So I don't think we're going to agree on this topic, but it doesn't matter and it makes the debate all the more interesting. In any case, an excellent article that you've written there, very in-depth and well documented!
In any case, I seem to have provoked the debate, and that's a good thing.
We don't need to agree. You're right and I'm right.
I've also had multiple baggers that I would never have experienced with this rule, so I totally understand your point.
The difference between the two approaches is that on one side we focus on a title while on the other we reason more in terms of global portfolio. We increase overall profitability, even if we no longer have the joy of seeing many baggers.
But as mentioned in the article, it is much more demanding. So not for everyone.
The overpriced US and Swiss markets have pushed me, in spite of myself, to look for more affordable stocks, which I have found mainly in Japanese small caps. There are some real gems there, but there is a price to pay: the inconsistent nature of profits, which is more marked than in large caps, such as the aristocrats.
Good diversification, combined with this stop rule, helps eliminate this problem, and even improve overall profitability.
The day the market crashes again, I'll go back to the aristocrats, and I'll probably abandon this rule... there are fewer jobs.
I will also take advantage of this to retire!
“I will also take advantage of this to retire!”
And when is this retirement? 🙂
I set myself a very ambitious goal two years ago:
https://www.dividendes.ch/2016/04/objectif-2020/
But to get there I am dependent on many factors over which I have no control.
Let's say I do everything I can to get there, without stopping enjoying life of course.
Wow, really sporty goal, I hope you reach it in time!
For my part, I cannot yet make a precise projection, but I hope in about 10 years.
It's good to have a goal, it motivates you even more!
Small addition:
I am also willing to liquidate stocks whose fundamentals have deteriorated. However, I am not willing to let the moods of the stock market dictate my choices.
In 2008, Nestlé lost around 35% only because the market as a whole was taking a nosedive. Should it have been sold off with a loss of 20%? And forego the dividends that continued to increase in all the following years? And what about the share price, which has since recovered more than 50% from its pre-crisis high, and more than 100% from its low in early 2009? Would the stock really have been bought back at the right time after having sold it?
By becoming a shareholder in a collection of companies, I accept the rules of the game and let the prices move in all directions with a certain detachment, even a certain fatalism. When I look at my portfolio, I have stocks that have lost 15% and others 40%. Some have hardly moved. Others have gained 20 or 50%. A few gems have even gained hundreds of percent.
And the most interesting thing about all this is that at the time of my purchases, I would have been quite unable to predict which ones would lose 20% or gain 200%. In addition, I would never have had these few "baggers" if I had used a trailing stop of 20%. I think that by wanting to limit risks too much and reduce volatility, we risk ultimately harming the performance of our portfolio.
Good evening
a little Up for subject
I have just applied this "method": one of my titles (Neoen not to name it) lost 20% compared to its highest in 2 sessions.
So I sold and right after the stock stabilized...
– this title does not pay dividends
– I was still in surplus value (compared to the purchase price)
– I avoided making the same mistake as in 2008 with the EDF title…
With the money available I repositioned myself on another title. The future will tell me if I was wrong.
Good evening and thanks again for the discussions.
Hello Jacques
two thoughts regarding your comment:
Let's clarify that I personally don't sell right after the drop. Instead, I do a monthly check, on a fixed date, as indicated in the post. This limits the number of false signals, like the stock takes a hit for 2-3 days, then takes off again right after. This is what seems to be happening to Neoen by the way. You will tell me that if the check falls in the "trough" the situation would be identical. It's true, but the probabilities of a check at that time are very low.
The important thing is not to be right or wrong. Here again it is a question of probabilities. Most of the time this strategy works. It is by repeating the principle that we appreciate its reliability. There will certainly always be counter-examples where it would have been better not to sell. When it is like that, rather than making room for regrets, it is better to congratulate ourselves on all the lame ducks that we got rid of well before the disaster. This strategy has shown its effectiveness in spring 2020 during the corona crash.
Good evening to you too and thank you for your message.